Is the OT 100% historically and geographically correct? And, Muslims and Jews vis-a-vis Christianity

The story of the Exodus from Egypt by the ancient Hebrews under the leadership of Moses has been under fire and serious scrutiny for some years now.  This is due to the lack of both archaeological evidence and Egyptian documentation from the period (they did have a form of writing after all in ancient Egypt) to support the Biblical account.  We have linked below to an interesting article reposted by another blogger that addresses this (near the article’s end) and other issues.  (For those who simply will not make the effort to read the article, I will briefly say that its main point is that it is much more plausible for various reasons that the Exodus occurred in the Arabian peninsula and not in Egypt, and that the Hebrews were never slaves in Egypt.  The author also tells why the Exodus story was much later (many centuries later) situated in Egypt.)

Some skeptics of the Bible’s account of the Exodus will pose the question: If all those plagues had been visited upon Egypt by the God of the Hebrews, why with such concrete proof of that God’s existence did the Egyptians not convert to ancient Judaism?  The fact that the Egyptians did not abandon their pagan polytheism and accept Judaic monotheism could be easily explained by concluding that the Exodus did not take place from Egypt at all.

The short answer to the question posed in the title of this evening’s post is no, the Old Testament is not historically and geographically correct in all details.  (This is basically saying what has been said for the past 200 plus years in Western Christianity, and that is that the “Bible contains the Word of God”, rather than saying “the Bible is the Word of God”.)  It is also worth remarking that the Bible mentions “Pharoah” numerous times in the Old Testament, but I do not think there is ever the mention of a specific name associated with the word, Pharoah.  So, the question that immediately comes to mind is “Which Pharaoh is the Bible referring to?”

For me, it does not bother me if some accounts in the OT are not historically and geographically accurate.  This does not threaten my Christian faith.  Yet, there are some fundamentalist type persons for which any incongruence between the Bible and historical reality would serve to call into question the entire (Christian) Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament.  I think that is a mistake in thinking.  It is worth remarking here that there appears to have been a debate early on in the Christian era as to which books of the Old Testament to include in the Christian Bible, and which books to leave behind.  Perhaps, with the benefit of hindsight now in the year 2019, we can say it might have been better if some books from the OT had been left behind.

As many readers are no doubt aware, the Biblical account of The Flood (Noah) is not the only such account from the ancient world.  The Epic of Gilgamesh mentions such a deluge and is older than the Bible.  For some, that serves to support the Biblical account.

Muslims and Jews vis-a-vis Christianity

Although many Christians will say that the Muslims and the Jews worship the same god as the Christians do, they make a mistake if they then draw the conclusion that there is some “common ground” between Jews, Muslims and Christians.  Christians have a moral and ethical code that applies to the way Christians interact with others persons, all other persons including non-Christians, and it is a consistent ethic that the Christian is not to harm (rob, rape, murder, enslave, etc.) other persons.  The fact that Christians (or those who claimed to be Christians) have harmed others, both other Christians and non-Christians is not the point here.  Christians are commanded to love their neighbor and that includes all neighbors near and far.

This is not true in practice of Jews and Muslims, who both operate under a bifurcated set of ethics.  The Talmud gives sanction (as in approval) in many passages to Jews to lie, steal from, deceive, and even in some passages, kill the goyim (literally cattle, referring to all non-Jews).  Similarly, there are verses in the Quran that instruct Muslims to do harm (or that permit harm) to infidels (all who are non-Muslims).  History, the history that is not sanitized through a multicultural or politically correct lens, informs us of the many terrible crimes and abuses committed by conquering Muslims over the centuries from India to Spain (as in the Moors’ conquest in the 8th century), and up into Hungary, Serbia and other Balkan countries by the Ottoman Turks.  Jews are not to harm other Jews.  Similarly, Muslims are not to harm fellow Muslims.  But non-Jews and non-Muslims are fair game so to speak for inflicting harm upon by Jews and Muslims respectively.

Christians ought to be careful here, and not trip themselves up with naive or idealistic notions.  The reality is that both Jews and Muslims are opposed to the social kingship of Christ.  The Talmud and Sharia law are antithetical to Christian faith and moral precepts.  And, for the many ethnic but quite atheistic Jews of today, we cannot delude ourselves into thinking they are any friends of Christianity.

In my life, I have done some reading.  Unlike Hilaire Belloc (died 1953), I do not see Islam as being a Christological heresy.  Rather, what I have concluded for some years now is that Islam is another form of, or offshoot of Judaism.  And, in the article linked below, there is much to support that view.  This one (same) article covers a lot.

linked article

Here is the link to the article noted in both sections above.  Please be aware that my linking to it here does not necessarily imply that I agree with all the inferences and conclusions in the article, or that I agree with all or any of the other posts on this other blog.  This is a challenging article that is not for everyone.  We share it here as food for thought.

Pharaoh of Abraham was not king of Egypt

copyright 2019 – larrysmusings.com

21 comments

  1. For me, all of the word of God is true and accurate. If it weren’t, then we might as well toss out the Bible. Jesus said: “They word is truth.” I’m sure He meant ALL of it.

    Since Islam teaches that Jesus is not the Son of God. That he was only a prophet like Muhammad, then they are a false religion. They also believe that Jesus did not die on the cross.

  2. For those who say we need to take the Bible literally, how do we do this in the case of the Book of Revelation? Revelation is quite obviously highly symbolic, i.e. it was never intended to be taken literally.
    “Anti-Semitism” has been in the news a lot lately. Pursuing this topic, I chanced upon an old book that exposes the Talmud and its utter hatred of Christians. The level of vitriol specifically directed at Christians in the Talmud makes anything you will find in the Koran pale by comparison – like maybe reading the Boy Scout handbook! See for yourself:
    http://www.talmudunmasked.com/chapter8.htm (and subsequent chapters).

    1. Thanks Stephen for your comment. Yes, I have seen articles that cite many verses or passages from the various books or texts that make up the Talmud, and these are highly offensive to/for Christians, but also even for non-Christians. Basically, the Jewish ideology, that some have likened to racial or ethnic self-worship, views (and treats) all non-Jews as being sub-humans, that is the essence of it. Thus, Jews can and do take advantage of all others, as I noted in a zero sum game (see the previous post about freedom of speech being under attack).

      Anti-Semiticism has been weaponized and used to stifle any criticism of Jews and even any discussion of Jewish activities (as in the furor over Ilhan Omar publicly saying what we all know to be true about Jewish influence over US foreign policy).

      As to taking all that is in the Bible literally, that is a problem for many on a number of levels, but millions of fundamentalist and evangelical Christians here in the US do take every phrase quite literally. Yet, many people counter that there are clearly passages that are allegorical, and that is how we ought to take or interpret them. Some folks think that the Beast mentioned in Revelation referred to Nero, who behaved like a wild beast. Revelation may have been written some 25 to 30 years after Nero’s reign, but how are we to interpret that book? My late mother told me a couple of different times that it is the first and last books of the Bible that are hardest to deal with, or get your mind around if you take them literally (Genesis and Revelation), and I think she was correct about that.

      1. True, the Garden of Eden story is also highly symbolic. It really makes little or no sense at all if you take it literally.

      2. Stephen, some people think that it is a cautionary tale for us humans. I posted on the Garden of Eden story back in the summer of 2012. The main point of that post was the story raises many more questions than it answers.

      3. The Garden of Eden story begins to make sense once you realize that contains at least two mistranslations. First is the Hebrew word “nachash” is rendered as “serpent”, which is only partially correct. It could just as easily have been rendered as “magician” or “enchanter” though, which would already have cast a whole new light on the story. Second, the word “beguiled” (as in “Eve was beguiled by the serpent”) should have been translated as “seduced”. There is also “eating the fruit of” is really a giant euphemism for sexual intercourse.

        There. Now the story has an entirely different meaning. Perhaps they intended this to make it acceptable for children to read, but I believe there was a darker purpose involved.

      4. I had not heard this about mistranslations of certain words in the story before. The Old Testament was in oral traditions for centuries before being written down (sometime around or after 600 B.C.). Then, during the time of Ezra, there was a great compilation or editing done to the texts. Later still we have the Septuguaint translation (70 Jewish scribes at Alexandria) from Hebrew or Aramaic into Greek before the time of Christ. Centuries later, there was the Vulgate translation of the Christian Bible from the Greek to Latin in 383 A.D. Each time there is a translation, the translator(s) are required to make interpretations as to which are the best words to use in the new or target language as there are many words that do not translate easily or nicely from one language to another, or these have multiple meanings in the original language. Add to this, that some translators may have an agenda of their own and they can put a spin on the translated books that was not there in the original.

        Eating the apple in Eden was a reference to taboo sex? Wow. We recognize that there clearly is a need for sexual morality in human societies. Unfortunately, the thinking of ancient pagan schools of thought (such as the Stoics, Gnostics, and Manicheans) influenced some of the early Church fathers and thus hatred of pleasure and sexual pessimism entered the early Church. Freud came along later and spoke of the sexual repression of Christianity. It seems to me that it is best to avoid the harmful extremes of sexual repression and burdening marriage on the one hand, and espousing the so-called sexual revolution of the 1960s on the other hand. I think Christ called men and women to live moral, human lives, not lives of ascetic renunciation. People do need to govern their religious fervor with reason.

      5. I forgot to mention one other detail about the Garden of Eden story: the “tree” of the knowledge of good and evil. This was not a mere apple or pear tree, but much more like a FAMILY TREE! That is, God was admonishing Eve not to refrain from having sex, but to simply avoid having it with A CERTAIN INDIVIDUAL, namely the “serpent” (or magician) that also inhabited the Garden. This “serpent” had an evil bloodline, which would contaminate the pure Adamic bloodline, and bring knowledge of evil to the (many contend) white Adamic race. Evidence that this actually happened came when Eve had TWO children, Cain and Abel. Abel looked like his father Adam, but Eve said of Cain “I’ve gotten a child from the LORD!” “Lord” is how the Hebrew word Ba’al got translated into English. In other words, Eve had sex with Satan, which produced the first murderer, Cain.

        Don’t expect to hear this interpretation in church or Sunday school class!

      6. That is wild, Stephen. Ba’al was a god of the Hittites, I thought.

        Truly, a cautionary tale, but perhaps some folks read too much into it. 😉

        This chosen people idea has really screwed up some people’s thinking today. The Jews of today are not descendants of the ancient Hebrews. As well, they are not Torah Jews by faith either. Yet, many Christians will rush to send a few dollars to these groups that go by such amusing names as Chosen People Ministries, and blessjews.com (or is it .org?). The Jews are by far the wealthiest group of people on the planet and in all of history. They can take care of their own. But, if they can get the gullible goyim to send in their money, so much the better for the Jews.

  3. Judaism is a totalitarian ideology of racial supremacy masquerading as a religion.
    Islam is a totalitarian political ideology masquerading as a religion.
    They both hate Western civilization. Ironically, the Muslims didn’t hate us until we fought Israel’s wars.
    They both believe in a New World Order. They both have high tolerances for corruption, depravity and dishonesty, as long as they are done in a “proper” manner. They both believe the Goyim/Kuffar should have no rights.
    So, basically, the Jews are using Muslims as shock troops of the New World Order. Most Muslims are too stupid to know this. Those who do probably don’t care, they think it will all work out in the end.

    1. Thanks Morpheus for your comment. I have to agree with much that you say. One’s man ideology is another man’s religion.

      I have tried to point out to people, Christians that is, that both Judaism and Islam are opposed to Christ and Christian civilization. We do agree there. But, Muslims have abused non-Muslims wherever they have gone, independent of any modern Jewish influence or manipulation of them. In India, the Muslims began conquering late in the 11th century. They destroyed many Hindu temples and much religious art in northern India. When the Taliban destroyed {at least partially) the gigantic and ancient, Buddha carvings in the rock walls in Afghanistan (circa 1999), they were just being good modern day Muslims. Muslims were capturing and enslaving Christians all throughout the Middle Ages. The Trinitarians, a Catholic religious order, was founded in 1198 A.D. One of their purposes was to ransom, and thus free, enslaved Christians from the Muslims in the Mediterranean area.

      It is only now that Europe, demoralized after decades of socialism, is post-Christian that the slow Islamicization of the continent is occurring. Authentic Christian peoples would actively work to counter this.

  4. I was going to mention the epic of Gilgamesh, but you’ve already mentioned it in your post. There’s also the Yahweh part who himself was not a god but a demigod who was given a slice of land to rule over. Yahweh then forbade the worship of other gods and claimed himself to be the only god. Yahweh was an Elohim which makes him one of the numerous gods that the ancient Canaanites worshipped. The children of El.

    Jor-el, Kal-el, Superman, Jerry Seigel, it’s all pretty much how the Canaanite religion was surreptitiously injected into American culture without Christians being told of it.

    JJ Abrams and his “Kelvin” timeline of the Star Trek universe. Kelvin was his uncle’s name. A watered down act of apostasy through cultural subversion.

    And because of all these points of subversion, without Jesus we would be lost. Jesus is our only savior.

      1. Thanks Digital Empire for your thoughts. I have consciously chosen to not edit your first comment. The two possible words, apostasy and apotheosis, make for interesting interpretations of your comment.

        All I can say is that we must govern our religious fervor with reason or we risk degenerating into harmful fanaticism.

        An interesting aside here. The late Joseph Campbell (1904 – 1987), the American scholar of religions and mythologies worldwide, related a story in his book, Myths to Live By (I think it is from 1969). A student of his from India (and likely with a Hindu perspective) read some of the Bible and then remarked to Campbell that he had not found much in it about God. Campbell, who in his later interviews (from the early 1980s) became more antagonistic towards the Bible and fundamentalist Christians, wrote that his student did not know, and could not have known that for we Americans reading the imagined history of the Jewish people counts as a religious experience (for us).

        I relate this story from memory not to diminish or weaken readers’ Christian faith, but to point out that we cannot take the Bible in every single detail as quite literal. That is all.

      2. Hmmm. I wonder if Campbell’s student was reflecting more on the persecution of Christians in the New Testament, or the wrathful Yahweh in the old testament. I’m the the camp that believes that the old testament is not Christian, at least not in the way that many Christians insist that it is.

      3. From the context of Campbell’s remark in the book, I dare say that the student from India was speaking of the OT. (Campbell wrote of the “imagined history of the Jewish people”.)

  5. It never ceases to amaze me how the Jews control everything while 95% of the people are completely unaware that they do!

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